Problems with KDE Plasma terminal emulator "Konsole"

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
9 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Problems with KDE Plasma terminal emulator "Konsole"

chrys
Howdy Joanie,

i currently do some new testing session for KDE Plasma.

First of all, Thanks for the KWin script. i just test it,, the window
switcher now works now very awsome with orca master :). Thanks!

I just play around with "Konsole" its the KDE Plasma Terminal emulator.
and i figured, it has an A11y implementation! But it seems some kind of
broken as orca doesn't announce incoming text or word echo like it does
in gnome-terminal. But  i also figured that the text is available in
review. Maybe could you take a look what broken that i can see what i
can do to fix it?

cheers chrys


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Problems with KDE Plasma terminal emulator "Konsole"

Joanmarie Diggs-6
Hey Chrys.

Sure thing. I'm using KDE now myself. :)

--joanie

On 4/7/19 6:03 PM, chrys wrote:

> Howdy Joanie,
>
> i currently do some new testing session for KDE Plasma.
>
> First of all, Thanks for the KWin script. i just test it,, the window
> switcher now works now very awsome with orca master :). Thanks!
>
> I just play around with "Konsole" its the KDE Plasma Terminal emulator.
> and i figured, it has an A11y implementation! But it seems some kind of
> broken as orca doesn't announce incoming text or word echo like it does
> in gnome-terminal. But  i also figured that the text is available in
> review. Maybe could you take a look what broken that i can see what i
> can do to fix it?
>
> cheers chrys
>
>
>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Problems with KDE Plasma terminal emulator "Konsole"

Joanmarie Diggs-6
Hey again.

We were getting focus and caret-moved events for something with role
accelerator-label. That seemed bogus, so I'm now filtering those out in
Orca master.

Having solved that problem, I went looking for the accessible object
with role terminal in Accerciser, but couldn't find it in the
accessibility tree. Weird. I also couldn't find the accelerator-label
object in Accerciser. Then I did some local debugging. The object with
role accelerator label happens to have the same text as what I see
displayed in the terminal. So here are my guesses:

1. Somehow the terminal is getting role accelerator label. That needs to
   be fixed. Aside from it being a bogus role for a terminal widget,
   Orca uses the terminal role to identify when the terminal script
   should be used. I might be wrong, but I think this should be an
   easy fix.

2. Assuming you, too, don't see the terminal widget in the accessibility
   tree, it would be good to figure out why that is and fix it. Whether
   or not doing so will have a screamingly-obvious impact on Orca is
   hard to say. But Orca does make some decisions about what to present,
   and also obtains the stuff to present, by looking in the
   accessibility tree. If that tree is broken, Orca might do the wrong
   thing.

Lastly, I found an ancient hack in Orca for Qt in which we just trust
that if we get a state-changed:focused event with detail1=1, it's a
valid focus claim. This was (and perhaps still is?) needed because
either the focused state and/or the focusable state were missing from
the state set. I haven't removed that hack, but I have now added some
extra debugging. We don't want missing states, because there can be
other places Orca uses those states to decide what to present. Now
something you could do is enable full debugging in Orca, use some QT
apps, then look in the resulting debug.out. Search for "QT: WARNING". If
you find it, please figure out why the state is missing and fix it. :)

Please let me know if you have any questions. And thanks for all your
work in this area!

--joanie

On 4/8/19 9:12 AM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:

> Hey Chrys.
>
> Sure thing. I'm using KDE now myself. :)
>
> --joanie
>
> On 4/7/19 6:03 PM, chrys wrote:
>> Howdy Joanie,
>>
>> i currently do some new testing session for KDE Plasma.
>>
>> First of all, Thanks for the KWin script. i just test it,, the window
>> switcher now works now very awsome with orca master :). Thanks!
>>
>> I just play around with "Konsole" its the KDE Plasma Terminal emulator.
>> and i figured, it has an A11y implementation! But it seems some kind of
>> broken as orca doesn't announce incoming text or word echo like it does
>> in gnome-terminal. But  i also figured that the text is available in
>> review. Maybe could you take a look what broken that i can see what i
>> can do to fix it?
>>
>> cheers chrys
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Problems with KDE Plasma terminal emulator "Konsole"

chrys
In reply to this post by Joanmarie Diggs-6
Howdy Joanie,

> Sure thing. I'm using KDE now myself. :)
oh really :)? what is the reason for you change?

>> First of all, Thanks for the KWin script. i just test it,, the window
>> switcher now works now very awsome with orca master :). Thanks!
something i figured here, it sometimes announce "frame", could this be  
filtered out? this happens not always. i guess its when the focus is  
entereing the switcher.

cheers chrys

Zitat von Joanmarie Diggs <[hidden email]>:

> Hey Chrys.
>
> Sure thing. I'm using KDE now myself. :)
>
> --joanie
>
> On 4/7/19 6:03 PM, chrys wrote:
>> Howdy Joanie,
>>
>> i currently do some new testing session for KDE Plasma.
>>
>> First of all, Thanks for the KWin script. i just test it,, the window
>> switcher now works now very awsome with orca master :). Thanks!
>>
>> I just play around with "Konsole" its the KDE Plasma Terminal emulator.
>> and i figured, it has an A11y implementation! But it seems some kind of
>> broken as orca doesn't announce incoming text or word echo like it does
>> in gnome-terminal. But  i also figured that the text is available in
>> review. Maybe could you take a look what broken that i can see what i
>> can do to fix it?
>>
>> cheers chrys
>>
>>
>>



Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Problems with KDE Plasma terminal emulator "Konsole"

chrys
In reply to this post by Joanmarie Diggs-6
Howdy,

ok let me check all this at home.

a small funny side information for you as i read "Accerciser":
do you know "libqaccessibilityclient"?
github.com/KDE/libqaccessibilityclient.git

the name is rather strange because its not only a lib but also some  
nice tools for debug accessibility stuff like Accerciser, but i find  
it more responsive and less buggy sometimes. you can take a look at if  
you are intrested in having a QT A11y introspector :).

overall plasma seems to be very accessible but some importaint stuff  
is missing

- default main menu (the alternatives are working lol)
- the Wifi networks are not keyboard navigateable
- performance and stability seems to be an issue too

i will work on this if i find free time. but free time is currently rare lol.

cheers chrys

Zitat von Joanmarie Diggs <[hidden email]>:

> Hey again.
>
> We were getting focus and caret-moved events for something with role
> accelerator-label. That seemed bogus, so I'm now filtering those out in
> Orca master.
>
> Having solved that problem, I went looking for the accessible object
> with role terminal in Accerciser, but couldn't find it in the
> accessibility tree. Weird. I also couldn't find the accelerator-label
> object in Accerciser. Then I did some local debugging. The object with
> role accelerator label happens to have the same text as what I see
> displayed in the terminal. So here are my guesses:
>
> 1. Somehow the terminal is getting role accelerator label. That needs to
>    be fixed. Aside from it being a bogus role for a terminal widget,
>    Orca uses the terminal role to identify when the terminal script
>    should be used. I might be wrong, but I think this should be an
>    easy fix.
>
> 2. Assuming you, too, don't see the terminal widget in the accessibility
>    tree, it would be good to figure out why that is and fix it. Whether
>    or not doing so will have a screamingly-obvious impact on Orca is
>    hard to say. But Orca does make some decisions about what to present,
>    and also obtains the stuff to present, by looking in the
>    accessibility tree. If that tree is broken, Orca might do the wrong
>    thing.
>
> Lastly, I found an ancient hack in Orca for Qt in which we just trust
> that if we get a state-changed:focused event with detail1=1, it's a
> valid focus claim. This was (and perhaps still is?) needed because
> either the focused state and/or the focusable state were missing from
> the state set. I haven't removed that hack, but I have now added some
> extra debugging. We don't want missing states, because there can be
> other places Orca uses those states to decide what to present. Now
> something you could do is enable full debugging in Orca, use some QT
> apps, then look in the resulting debug.out. Search for "QT: WARNING". If
> you find it, please figure out why the state is missing and fix it. :)
>
> Please let me know if you have any questions. And thanks for all your
> work in this area!
>
> --joanie
>
> On 4/8/19 9:12 AM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
>> Hey Chrys.
>>
>> Sure thing. I'm using KDE now myself. :)
>>
>> --joanie
>>
>> On 4/7/19 6:03 PM, chrys wrote:
>>> Howdy Joanie,
>>>
>>> i currently do some new testing session for KDE Plasma.
>>>
>>> First of all, Thanks for the KWin script. i just test it,, the window
>>> switcher now works now very awsome with orca master :). Thanks!
>>>
>>> I just play around with "Konsole" its the KDE Plasma Terminal emulator.
>>> and i figured, it has an A11y implementation! But it seems some kind of
>>> broken as orca doesn't announce incoming text or word echo like it does
>>> in gnome-terminal. But  i also figured that the text is available in
>>> review. Maybe could you take a look what broken that i can see what i
>>> can do to fix it?
>>>
>>> cheers chrys
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>



Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Problems with KDE Plasma terminal emulator "Konsole"

Frederik Gladhorn-5
In reply to this post by Joanmarie Diggs-6
On mandag 8. april 2019 16:56:14 CEST Joanmarie Diggs wrote:

> Hey again.
>
> We were getting focus and caret-moved events for something with role
> accelerator-label. That seemed bogus, so I'm now filtering those out in
> Orca master.
>
> Having solved that problem, I went looking for the accessible object
> with role terminal in Accerciser, but couldn't find it in the
> accessibility tree. Weird. I also couldn't find the accelerator-label
> object in Accerciser. Then I did some local debugging. The object with
> role accelerator label happens to have the same text as what I see
> displayed in the terminal. So here are my guesses:
>
> 1. Somehow the terminal is getting role accelerator label. That needs to
>    be fixed. Aside from it being a bogus role for a terminal widget,
>    Orca uses the terminal role to identify when the terminal script
>    should be used. I might be wrong, but I think this should be an
>    easy fix.

The terminal role was badly mapped in Qt on Linux, this should be working with
Qt 5.12.4, I have a few patches to Konsole for some other unlabeled buttons
and such.

>
> 2. Assuming you, too, don't see the terminal widget in the accessibility
>    tree, it would be good to figure out why that is and fix it. Whether
>    or not doing so will have a screamingly-obvious impact on Orca is
>    hard to say. But Orca does make some decisions about what to present,
>    and also obtains the stuff to present, by looking in the
>    accessibility tree. If that tree is broken, Orca might do the wrong
>    thing.

The terminal widget is presented as editable text, is that the best approach?
And it has children (some menu and other stuff iirc).

Does that make sense?

Cheers,
Frederik


>
> Lastly, I found an ancient hack in Orca for Qt in which we just trust
> that if we get a state-changed:focused event with detail1=1, it's a
> valid focus claim. This was (and perhaps still is?) needed because
> either the focused state and/or the focusable state were missing from
> the state set. I haven't removed that hack, but I have now added some
> extra debugging. We don't want missing states, because there can be
> other places Orca uses those states to decide what to present. Now
> something you could do is enable full debugging in Orca, use some QT
> apps, then look in the resulting debug.out. Search for "QT: WARNING". If
> you find it, please figure out why the state is missing and fix it. :)
>
> Please let me know if you have any questions. And thanks for all your
> work in this area!
>
> --joanie
>
> On 4/8/19 9:12 AM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
> > Hey Chrys.
> >
> > Sure thing. I'm using KDE now myself. :)
> >
> > --joanie
> >
> > On 4/7/19 6:03 PM, chrys wrote:
> >> Howdy Joanie,
> >>
> >> i currently do some new testing session for KDE Plasma.
> >>
> >> First of all, Thanks for the KWin script. i just test it,, the window
> >> switcher now works now very awsome with orca master :). Thanks!
> >>
> >> I just play around with "Konsole" its the KDE Plasma Terminal emulator.
> >> and i figured, it has an A11y implementation! But it seems some kind of
> >> broken as orca doesn't announce incoming text or word echo like it does
> >> in gnome-terminal. But  i also figured that the text is available in
> >> review. Maybe could you take a look what broken that i can see what i
> >> can do to fix it?
> >>
> >> cheers chrys




Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Problems with KDE Plasma terminal emulator "Konsole"

chrys
Howdy Frederik,

Awsome! So after update to QT 5.12.4 i should be able to give konsole a shot again? Are your patches in Konsole master?

Cheers chrys

> Am 30.04.2019 um 14:58 schrieb Frederik Gladhorn <[hidden email]>:
>
>> On mandag 8. april 2019 16:56:14 CEST Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
>> Hey again.
>>
>> We were getting focus and caret-moved events for something with role
>> accelerator-label. That seemed bogus, so I'm now filtering those out in
>> Orca master.
>>
>> Having solved that problem, I went looking for the accessible object
>> with role terminal in Accerciser, but couldn't find it in the
>> accessibility tree. Weird. I also couldn't find the accelerator-label
>> object in Accerciser. Then I did some local debugging. The object with
>> role accelerator label happens to have the same text as what I see
>> displayed in the terminal. So here are my guesses:
>>
>> 1. Somehow the terminal is getting role accelerator label. That needs to
>>   be fixed. Aside from it being a bogus role for a terminal widget,
>>   Orca uses the terminal role to identify when the terminal script
>>   should be used. I might be wrong, but I think this should be an
>>   easy fix.
>
> The terminal role was badly mapped in Qt on Linux, this should be working with
> Qt 5.12.4, I have a few patches to Konsole for some other unlabeled buttons
> and such.
>
>>
>> 2. Assuming you, too, don't see the terminal widget in the accessibility
>>   tree, it would be good to figure out why that is and fix it. Whether
>>   or not doing so will have a screamingly-obvious impact on Orca is
>>   hard to say. But Orca does make some decisions about what to present,
>>   and also obtains the stuff to present, by looking in the
>>   accessibility tree. If that tree is broken, Orca might do the wrong
>>   thing.
>
> The terminal widget is presented as editable text, is that the best approach?
> And it has children (some menu and other stuff iirc).
>
> Does that make sense?
>
> Cheers,
> Frederik
>
>
>>
>> Lastly, I found an ancient hack in Orca for Qt in which we just trust
>> that if we get a state-changed:focused event with detail1=1, it's a
>> valid focus claim. This was (and perhaps still is?) needed because
>> either the focused state and/or the focusable state were missing from
>> the state set. I haven't removed that hack, but I have now added some
>> extra debugging. We don't want missing states, because there can be
>> other places Orca uses those states to decide what to present. Now
>> something you could do is enable full debugging in Orca, use some QT
>> apps, then look in the resulting debug.out. Search for "QT: WARNING". If
>> you find it, please figure out why the state is missing and fix it. :)
>>
>> Please let me know if you have any questions. And thanks for all your
>> work in this area!
>>
>> --joanie
>>
>>> On 4/8/19 9:12 AM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
>>> Hey Chrys.
>>>
>>> Sure thing. I'm using KDE now myself. :)
>>>
>>> --joanie
>>>
>>>> On 4/7/19 6:03 PM, chrys wrote:
>>>> Howdy Joanie,
>>>>
>>>> i currently do some new testing session for KDE Plasma.
>>>>
>>>> First of all, Thanks for the KWin script. i just test it,, the window
>>>> switcher now works now very awsome with orca master :). Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> I just play around with "Konsole" its the KDE Plasma Terminal emulator.
>>>> and i figured, it has an A11y implementation! But it seems some kind of
>>>> broken as orca doesn't announce incoming text or word echo like it does
>>>> in gnome-terminal. But  i also figured that the text is available in
>>>> review. Maybe could you take a look what broken that i can see what i
>>>> can do to fix it?
>>>>
>>>> cheers chrys
>
>
>
>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Problems with KDE Plasma terminal emulator "Konsole"

Frederik Gladhorn-2
On fredag 3. mai 2019 16:21:49 CEST Chrys wrote:
> Howdy Frederik,
>
> Awsome! So after update to QT 5.12.4 i should be able to give konsole a shot
> again? Are your patches in Konsole master?

No, I haven't managed to finish them, I need to put them up for review.

Qt 5.12.4 only makes the terminal role work, I'm not sure how much that by
itself helps.

Cheers,
Frederik


>
> Cheers chrys
>
> > Am 30.04.2019 um 14:58 schrieb Frederik Gladhorn
<[hidden email]>:

> >> On mandag 8. april 2019 16:56:14 CEST Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
> >> Hey again.
> >>
> >> We were getting focus and caret-moved events for something with role
> >> accelerator-label. That seemed bogus, so I'm now filtering those out in
> >> Orca master.
> >>
> >> Having solved that problem, I went looking for the accessible object
> >> with role terminal in Accerciser, but couldn't find it in the
> >> accessibility tree. Weird. I also couldn't find the accelerator-label
> >> object in Accerciser. Then I did some local debugging. The object with
> >> role accelerator label happens to have the same text as what I see
> >> displayed in the terminal. So here are my guesses:
> >>
> >> 1. Somehow the terminal is getting role accelerator label. That needs to
> >>
> >>   be fixed. Aside from it being a bogus role for a terminal widget,
> >>   Orca uses the terminal role to identify when the terminal script
> >>   should be used. I might be wrong, but I think this should be an
> >>   easy fix.
> >
> > The terminal role was badly mapped in Qt on Linux, this should be working
> > with Qt 5.12.4, I have a few patches to Konsole for some other unlabeled
> > buttons and such.
> >
> >> 2. Assuming you, too, don't see the terminal widget in the accessibility
> >>
> >>   tree, it would be good to figure out why that is and fix it. Whether
> >>   or not doing so will have a screamingly-obvious impact on Orca is
> >>   hard to say. But Orca does make some decisions about what to present,
> >>   and also obtains the stuff to present, by looking in the
> >>   accessibility tree. If that tree is broken, Orca might do the wrong
> >>   thing.
> >
> > The terminal widget is presented as editable text, is that the best
> > approach? And it has children (some menu and other stuff iirc).
> >
> > Does that make sense?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Frederik
> >
> >> Lastly, I found an ancient hack in Orca for Qt in which we just trust
> >> that if we get a state-changed:focused event with detail1=1, it's a
> >> valid focus claim. This was (and perhaps still is?) needed because
> >> either the focused state and/or the focusable state were missing from
> >> the state set. I haven't removed that hack, but I have now added some
> >> extra debugging. We don't want missing states, because there can be
> >> other places Orca uses those states to decide what to present. Now
> >> something you could do is enable full debugging in Orca, use some QT
> >> apps, then look in the resulting debug.out. Search for "QT: WARNING". If
> >> you find it, please figure out why the state is missing and fix it. :)
> >>
> >> Please let me know if you have any questions. And thanks for all your
> >> work in this area!
> >>
> >> --joanie
> >>
> >>> On 4/8/19 9:12 AM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
> >>> Hey Chrys.
> >>>
> >>> Sure thing. I'm using KDE now myself. :)
> >>>
> >>> --joanie
> >>>
> >>>> On 4/7/19 6:03 PM, chrys wrote:
> >>>> Howdy Joanie,
> >>>>
> >>>> i currently do some new testing session for KDE Plasma.
> >>>>
> >>>> First of all, Thanks for the KWin script. i just test it,, the window
> >>>> switcher now works now very awsome with orca master :). Thanks!
> >>>>
> >>>> I just play around with "Konsole" its the KDE Plasma Terminal emulator.
> >>>> and i figured, it has an A11y implementation! But it seems some kind of
> >>>> broken as orca doesn't announce incoming text or word echo like it does
> >>>> in gnome-terminal. But  i also figured that the text is available in
> >>>> review. Maybe could you take a look what broken that i can see what i
> >>>> can do to fix it?
> >>>>
> >>>> cheers chrys




Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Problems with KDE Plasma terminal emulator "Konsole"

chrys
Howdy,

Qt 5.12.4 only makes the terminal role work, I'm not sure how much that by 
itself helps.
Ok, lets try it out. We will see what happens

Am 06.05.2019 um 10:35 schrieb Frederik Gladhorn <[hidden email]>:

On fredag 3. mai 2019 16:21:49 CEST Chrys wrote:
Howdy Frederik,

Awsome! So after update to QT 5.12.4 i should be able to give konsole a shot
again? Are your patches in Konsole master?

No, I haven't managed to finish them, I need to put them up for review.

Qt 5.12.4 only makes the terminal role work, I'm not sure how much that by
itself helps.

Cheers,
Frederik



Cheers chrys

Am 30.04.2019 um 14:58 schrieb Frederik Gladhorn
<[hidden email]>:
On mandag 8. april 2019 16:56:14 CEST Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
Hey again.

We were getting focus and caret-moved events for something with role
accelerator-label. That seemed bogus, so I'm now filtering those out in
Orca master.

Having solved that problem, I went looking for the accessible object
with role terminal in Accerciser, but couldn't find it in the
accessibility tree. Weird. I also couldn't find the accelerator-label
object in Accerciser. Then I did some local debugging. The object with
role accelerator label happens to have the same text as what I see
displayed in the terminal. So here are my guesses:

1. Somehow the terminal is getting role accelerator label. That needs to

 be fixed. Aside from it being a bogus role for a terminal widget,
 Orca uses the terminal role to identify when the terminal script
 should be used. I might be wrong, but I think this should be an
 easy fix.

The terminal role was badly mapped in Qt on Linux, this should be working
with Qt 5.12.4, I have a few patches to Konsole for some other unlabeled
buttons and such.

2. Assuming you, too, don't see the terminal widget in the accessibility

 tree, it would be good to figure out why that is and fix it. Whether
 or not doing so will have a screamingly-obvious impact on Orca is
 hard to say. But Orca does make some decisions about what to present,
 and also obtains the stuff to present, by looking in the
 accessibility tree. If that tree is broken, Orca might do the wrong
 thing.

The terminal widget is presented as editable text, is that the best
approach? And it has children (some menu and other stuff iirc).

Does that make sense?

Cheers,
Frederik

Lastly, I found an ancient hack in Orca for Qt in which we just trust
that if we get a state-changed:focused event with detail1=1, it's a
valid focus claim. This was (and perhaps still is?) needed because
either the focused state and/or the focusable state were missing from
the state set. I haven't removed that hack, but I have now added some
extra debugging. We don't want missing states, because there can be
other places Orca uses those states to decide what to present. Now
something you could do is enable full debugging in Orca, use some QT
apps, then look in the resulting debug.out. Search for "QT: WARNING". If
you find it, please figure out why the state is missing and fix it. :)

Please let me know if you have any questions. And thanks for all your
work in this area!

--joanie

On 4/8/19 9:12 AM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
Hey Chrys.

Sure thing. I'm using KDE now myself. :)

--joanie

On 4/7/19 6:03 PM, chrys wrote:
Howdy Joanie,

i currently do some new testing session for KDE Plasma.

First of all, Thanks for the KWin script. i just test it,, the window
switcher now works now very awsome with orca master :). Thanks!

I just play around with "Konsole" its the KDE Plasma Terminal emulator.
and i figured, it has an A11y implementation! But it seems some kind of
broken as orca doesn't announce incoming text or word echo like it does
in gnome-terminal. But  i also figured that the text is available in
review. Maybe could you take a look what broken that i can see what i
can do to fix it?

cheers chrys