kmail2 apparently losing mail while migrating to local imap

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kmail2 apparently losing mail while migrating to local imap

Alan McKinnon-2
Hi,

As part of migrating away from kdepim entirely, I've created a local
IMAP instance in Dovecot and configured this as a local receiving
account. It shows up in the left sidebar of kmail.
 
kmail version      4.7.0
KDE version        4.7.0
Local folder       ~/.local/share/local-mail
local imap folder  ~/.maildir

I've used this local imap trick for years when migrating, it always
works well. I should be able to drag folder trees, individual folders
or individual mails from kmail's Local folders to the IMAP account and
have the original mails be moved. It does not appear to work with
kmail2 properly.

Dragging items to the IMAP folder makes them appear in kmail's display
in the correct place and they can be read. However, the originals are
no longer in ~/.local/share/local-mail and do not appear in ~/.maildir
either. They seem to have been deleted off disk.

Gradually, mails moved in this way are disappearing from the kmail
display, I assume they are expiring out of the akonadi cache. I have
already lost the entire contents of my archive for this very mailing
list right here.

Dragging and dropping mails in the same way inside claws works
correctly - mails moved on-disk from the old to the new locations as
one expects.

What is kmail2's expected behaviour in this action, and are there logs
where I can determine what it did and where it put things?


--
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
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Re: kmail2 apparently losing mail while migrating to local imap

darknight-2
On Wednesday 24 August 2011 14:56:31 Alan McKinnon wrote:

> Hi,
>
> As part of migrating away from kdepim entirely, I've created a local
> IMAP instance in Dovecot and configured this as a local receiving
> account. It shows up in the left sidebar of kmail.
>
> kmail version      4.7.0
> KDE version        4.7.0
> Local folder       ~/.local/share/local-mail
> local imap folder  ~/.maildir
>
> I've used this local imap trick for years when migrating, it always
> works well. I should be able to drag folder trees, individual folders
> or individual mails from kmail's Local folders to the IMAP account and
> have the original mails be moved. It does not appear to work with
> kmail2 properly.

> What is kmail2's expected behaviour in this action, and are there logs
> where I can determine what it did and where it put things?

Have you solved this or do you have a workaround? It's killing me.

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Re: kmail2 apparently losing mail while migrating to local imap

Alan McKinnon-2
On Wed, 07 Sep 2011 14:23:38 +0200
Darknight <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wednesday 24 August 2011 14:56:31 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > As part of migrating away from kdepim entirely, I've created a local
> > IMAP instance in Dovecot and configured this as a local receiving
> > account. It shows up in the left sidebar of kmail.
> >
> > kmail version      4.7.0
> > KDE version        4.7.0
> > Local folder       ~/.local/share/local-mail
> > local imap folder  ~/.maildir
> >
> > I've used this local imap trick for years when migrating, it always
> > works well. I should be able to drag folder trees, individual
> > folders or individual mails from kmail's Local folders to the IMAP
> > account and have the original mails be moved. It does not appear to
> > work with kmail2 properly.
>
> > What is kmail2's expected behaviour in this action, and are there
> > logs where I can determine what it did and where it put things?
>
> Have you solved this or do you have a workaround? It's killing me.

Yes, I solved the problem quite nicely.

I realized that KDEPIM fits all the characteristics of a second major
project (read The Mythical Man-Month by Frederick P. Brooks to find out
how very dangerous such project are) and is therefore unlikely to ever
work properly. So I excised KDEPIM from all my machines and am now
happily using claws-mail.

Harsh words? Sure. But I believe justified.

The final straw (after happily using kmail for 6 years) was when kmail2
started silently deleting mail folders.


--
Alan McKinnnon
[hidden email]
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Re: kmail2 apparently losing mail while migrating to local imap

darknight-2
On Wednesday 07 September 2011 14:43:23 Alan McKinnon wrote:

> Yes, I solved the problem quite nicely.
>
> I realized that KDEPIM fits all the characteristics of a second major
> project (read The Mythical Man-Month by Frederick P. Brooks to find out
> how very dangerous such project are) and is therefore unlikely to ever
> work properly. So I excised KDEPIM from all my machines and am now
> happily using claws-mail.
>
> Harsh words? Sure. But I believe justified.
>
> The final straw (after happily using kmail for 6 years) was when kmail2
> started silently deleting mail folders.

I'm fed up too, I used to swear by kmail but no more.
I'm going to use thunderbird but I still need to move my (gargantuan) folders
to the imap server, can claws *painlessly* import them and do the work?

Thanks

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Re: kmail2 apparently losing mail while migrating to local imap

darknight-2
On Wednesday 07 September 2011 14:57:21 Darknight wrote:

> On Wednesday 07 September 2011 14:43:23 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > Yes, I solved the problem quite nicely.
> >
> > I realized that KDEPIM fits all the characteristics of a second major
> > project (read The Mythical Man-Month by Frederick P. Brooks to find out
> > how very dangerous such project are) and is therefore unlikely to ever
> > work properly. So I excised KDEPIM from all my machines and am now
> > happily using claws-mail.
> >
> > Harsh words? Sure. But I believe justified.
> >
> > The final straw (after happily using kmail for 6 years) was when kmail2
> > started silently deleting mail folders.
>
> I'm fed up too, I used to swear by kmail but no more.
> I'm going to use thunderbird but I still need to move my (gargantuan)
> folders to the imap server, can claws *painlessly* import them and do the
> work?

I reply to myself so that others may benefit. I found out that I can create an
mbox resource and put the mail there, other mail programs will be able to read
it.

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Re: kmail2 apparently losing mail while migrating to local imap

jkgruet (Bugzilla)
On Wednesday, September 07, 2011 07:34:11 Darknight wrote:

> On Wednesday 07 September 2011 14:57:21 Darknight wrote:
> > On Wednesday 07 September 2011 14:43:23 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > > Yes, I solved the problem quite nicely.
> > >
> > > I realized that KDEPIM fits all the characteristics of a second major
> > > project (read The Mythical Man-Month by Frederick P. Brooks to find out
> > > how very dangerous such project are) and is therefore unlikely to ever
> > > work properly. So I excised KDEPIM from all my machines and am now
> > > happily using claws-mail.
> > >
> > > Harsh words? Sure. But I believe justified.
> > >
> > > The final straw (after happily using kmail for 6 years) was when kmail2
> > > started silently deleting mail folders.
> >
> > I'm fed up too, I used to swear by kmail but no more.
> > I'm going to use thunderbird but I still need to move my (gargantuan)
> > folders to the imap server, can claws *painlessly* import them and do the
> > work?
>
> I reply to myself so that others may benefit. I found out that I can create
> an mbox resource and put the mail there, other mail programs will be able
> to read it.
 
If you have time, could you either post a how-to or a link on how to do this (I'm
a scientific programmer, not an applications guy).  I've been using kmail for years
and haven't switched to kmail2 yet.  The prospect of kmail2 silently deleting mail
folders as reported is a large risk, so I'd best start looking for and evaluating
other options soon.  

Thanks for your help.
   James

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Re: kmail2 apparently losing mail while migrating to local imap

mike (Bugzilla)-19
Quoting "James K. Gruetzner" <[hidden email]>:

> On Wednesday, September 07, 2011 07:34:11 Darknight wrote:
>> On Wednesday 07 September 2011 14:57:21 Darknight wrote:
>> > On Wednesday 07 September 2011 14:43:23 Alan McKinnon wrote:
>> > > Yes, I solved the problem quite nicely.
>> > >
>> > > I realized that KDEPIM fits all the characteristics of a second major
>> > > project (read The Mythical Man-Month by Frederick P. Brooks to find out
>> > > how very dangerous such project are) and is therefore unlikely to ever
>> > > work properly. So I excised KDEPIM from all my machines and am now
>> > > happily using claws-mail.
>> > >
>> > > Harsh words? Sure. But I believe justified.
>> > >
>> > > The final straw (after happily using kmail for 6 years) was when kmail2
>> > > started silently deleting mail folders.
>> >
>> > I'm fed up too, I used to swear by kmail but no more.
>> > I'm going to use thunderbird but I still need to move my (gargantuan)
>> > folders to the imap server, can claws *painlessly* import them and do the
>> > work?
>>
>> I reply to myself so that others may benefit. I found out that I can create
>> an mbox resource and put the mail there, other mail programs will be able
>> to read it.
>
> If you have time, could you either post a how-to or a link on how to  
> do this (I'm
> a scientific programmer, not an applications guy).  I've been using  
> kmail for years
> and haven't switched to kmail2 yet.  The prospect of kmail2 silently  
> deleting mail
> folders as reported is a large risk, so I'd best start looking for  
> and evaluating
> other options soon.
>
> Thanks for your help.
>    James
>
> _______________________________________________
> KDE PIM users mailing list
> Subscription management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kdepim-users
>
I will belatedly throw my two cents in. I accidently updated to kmail2  
on my family's main machine. I use a kolab server for my email server.  
My migration went flawlessly, my wife's did not. She wasn't able to  
delete emails, and had lost some. The problem in her case was  
permissions on the imap folders. Don't know if it was Kmail or kolab,  
but once I reset her permissions on her inbox and her folders to  
"all", every thing worked as intended.

Mike

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Re: kmail2 apparently losing mail while migrating to local imap

darknight-2
In reply to this post by jkgruet (Bugzilla)
On Wednesday 07 September 2011 08:07:18 James K. Gruetzner wrote:
> > I reply to myself so that others may benefit. I found out that I can
> > create an mbox resource and put the mail there, other mail programs
> > will be able to read it.
>
> If you have time, could you either post a how-to or a link on how to do this
> (I'm a scientific programmer, not an applications guy).  I've been using
> kmail for years and haven't switched to kmail2 yet.  The prospect of kmail2
> silently deleting mail folders as reported is a large risk, so I'd best
> start looking for and evaluating other options soon.

I'm sorry but I can't recommend this route anymore and this is why:
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=281552

Since you are still using kmail1 I suggest that you use an imap account to
transfer all your email. Upload everything to the imap server (gmail may do if
you don't have too many gigabytes to transfer) and then access your mail from
any client. Nowadays all of them do imap.

Unfortunately I can't help you any better.

--
The Fibonacci in Lateralus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS7CZIJVxFY
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Re: kmail2 apparently losing mail while migrating to local imap

Martin (KDE)
In reply to this post by jkgruet (Bugzilla)
Am 07.09.2011 16:07, schrieb James K. Gruetzner:

> On Wednesday, September 07, 2011 07:34:11 Darknight wrote:
>> On Wednesday 07 September 2011 14:57:21 Darknight wrote:
>>> On Wednesday 07 September 2011 14:43:23 Alan McKinnon wrote:
>>>> Yes, I solved the problem quite nicely.
>>>>
>>>> I realized that KDEPIM fits all the characteristics of a second major
>>>> project (read The Mythical Man-Month by Frederick P. Brooks to find out
>>>> how very dangerous such project are) and is therefore unlikely to ever
>>>> work properly. So I excised KDEPIM from all my machines and am now
>>>> happily using claws-mail.
>>>>
>>>> Harsh words? Sure. But I believe justified.
>>>>
>>>> The final straw (after happily using kmail for 6 years) was when kmail2
>>>> started silently deleting mail folders.
>>>
>>> I'm fed up too, I used to swear by kmail but no more.
>>> I'm going to use thunderbird but I still need to move my (gargantuan)
>>> folders to the imap server, can claws *painlessly* import them and do the
>>> work?
>>
>> I reply to myself so that others may benefit. I found out that I can create
>> an mbox resource and put the mail there, other mail programs will be able
>> to read it.
>  
> If you have time, could you either post a how-to or a link on how to do this (I'm
> a scientific programmer, not an applications guy).  I've been using kmail for years
> and haven't switched to kmail2 yet.  The prospect of kmail2 silently deleting mail
> folders as reported is a large risk, so I'd best start looking for and evaluating
> other options soon.  

If you really need your mails use an imap server. dovecot is not hard to
set up and you can use every mail client you want. I use an imap server
for more than ten years (which handles the filtering independent from
mail client btw.) and use kmail, thunderbird, and some other mail
clients without any problems.

I never had migration issues, besides setting up the mail program to my
needs.

Regards

Martin

>
> Thanks for your help.
>    James
>
> _______________________________________________
> KDE PIM users mailing list
> Subscription management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kdepim-users

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Re: kmail2 apparently losing mail while migrating to local imap

Martin Steigerwald
In reply to this post by Alan McKinnon-2
Am Mittwoch, 24. August 2011 schrieb Alan McKinnon:
> Hi,

Hi!

> As part of migrating away from kdepim entirely, I've created a local
> IMAP instance in Dovecot and configured this as a local receiving
> account. It shows up in the left sidebar of kmail.
>
> kmail version      4.7.0
> KDE version        4.7.0
> Local folder       ~/.local/share/local-mail
> local imap folder  ~/.maildir
>
> I've used this local imap trick for years when migrating, it always
> works well. I should be able to drag folder trees, individual folders
> or individual mails from kmail's Local folders to the IMAP account and
> have the original mails be moved. It does not appear to work with
> kmail2 properly.
>
> Dragging items to the IMAP folder makes them appear in kmail's display
> in the correct place and they can be read. However, the originals are
> no longer in ~/.local/share/local-mail and do not appear in ~/.maildir
> either. They seem to have been deleted off disk.

I am quite reluctant migrating over to KDEPIM 2 anytime soon, given this
and the other posts in this and other thread about mail getting deleted.

Debian Qt/KDE developers did not yet package KDE 4.7.x and actually that
might be a good thing.

While I think that Akonadi is a good idea, the term "overengineerd" comes
to my mind now and then. When I consider how long it took until
KAdressBook 2 did work nicely here.

I am using KDE 4.6.5 and KDEPIM 4.4.11 works quite stable except for some
quite annoying hangs now and then when trying to send a mail. The composer
window would just sit there greyed out and nothing apparently is happening
anymore. KMail won´t respond to clicks either except for closing the
window when it offers me to sent as draft. Which I click then, to have an
additional copy. But then it doesn´t appear to do anything. I sigterm or
even sigkill it and then if I am lucky I have the mail in sent folder.

Anyway, its working quite stable and its not loosing mail.

So I wonder is loosing mail with KMail 2 some experiences of very few
users or is it more wide-spread? What about the idea to import instead of
migrate?

Would KMail 2 work with my current Akonadi SQLite setup at all? How to
migrate if not? I bet there isn´t much to migrate as only contacts data is
cached yet.

How will Akondi work in NFS based environments? I bet a central database
server is a requirement there.

I am quite puzzled that so many questions easily pop up in my mind when
all whats lying ahead is a switch from KMail 1 to KMail 2. And KMail
basically is "just" a MUA.

Anyway, from all I read here and elsewhere I think I will wait with the
switch at least until Debian Qt/KDE team packages it officially. Cause data
loss is no acceptable behavior for me.

That said I appreciate all the work on KDEPIM 2 and hope that it will be
safe to switch to it soon.

Ciao,
--
Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de
GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA  B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7
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Re: kmail2 apparently losing mail while migrating to local imap

Martin Steigerwald
In reply to this post by Alan McKinnon-2
Update: KMail Version 1.13.7 hung just again as described below. It was
stopable my SIGTERM. So lets see whether it sends now...


Am Mittwoch, 24. August 2011 schrieb Alan McKinnon:
> Hi,

Hi!

> As part of migrating away from kdepim entirely, I've created a local
> IMAP instance in Dovecot and configured this as a local receiving
> account. It shows up in the left sidebar of kmail.
>
> kmail version      4.7.0
> KDE version        4.7.0
> Local folder       ~/.local/share/local-mail
> local imap folder  ~/.maildir
>
> I've used this local imap trick for years when migrating, it always
> works well. I should be able to drag folder trees, individual folders
> or individual mails from kmail's Local folders to the IMAP account and
> have the original mails be moved. It does not appear to work with
> kmail2 properly.
>
> Dragging items to the IMAP folder makes them appear in kmail's display
> in the correct place and they can be read. However, the originals are
> no longer in ~/.local/share/local-mail and do not appear in ~/.maildir
> either. They seem to have been deleted off disk.

I am quite reluctant migrating over to KDEPIM 2 anytime soon, given this
and the other posts in this and other thread about mail getting deleted.

Debian Qt/KDE developers did not yet package KDE 4.7.x and actually that
might be a good thing.

While I think that Akonadi is a good idea, the term "overengineerd" comes
to my mind now and then. When I consider how long it took until
KAdressBook 2 did work nicely here.

I am using KDE 4.6.5 and KDEPIM 4.4.11 works quite stable except for some
quite annoying hangs now and then when trying to send a mail. The composer
window would just sit there greyed out and nothing apparently is happening
anymore. KMail won´t respond to clicks either except for closing the
window when it offers me to sent as draft. Which I click then, to have an
additional copy. But then it doesn´t appear to do anything. I sigterm or
even sigkill it and then if I am lucky I have the mail in sent folder.

Anyway, its working quite stable and its not loosing mail.

So I wonder is loosing mail with KMail 2 some experiences of very few
users or is it more wide-spread? What about the idea to import instead of
migrate?

Would KMail 2 work with my current Akonadi SQLite setup at all? How to
migrate if not? I bet there isn´t much to migrate as only contacts data is
cached yet.

How will Akondi work in NFS based environments? I bet a central database
server is a requirement there.

I am quite puzzled that so many questions easily pop up in my mind when
all whats lying ahead is a switch from KMail 1 to KMail 2. And KMail
basically is "just" a MUA.

Anyway, from all I read here and elsewhere I think I will wait with the
switch at least until Debian Qt/KDE team packages it officially. Cause data
loss is no acceptable behavior for me.

That said I appreciate all the work on KDEPIM 2 and hope that it will be
safe to switch to it soon.

Ciao,
--
Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de
GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA  B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7
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Re: kmail2 apparently losing mail while migrating to local imap

darknight-2
In reply to this post by Martin Steigerwald
Il 24/09/2011 20:32, Martin Steigerwald ha scritto:
> So I wonder is loosing mail with KMail 2 some experiences of very few
> users or is it more wide-spread? What about the idea to import instead of
> migrate?

You may want to follow https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=281552

> How will Akondi work in NFS based environments? I bet a central database
> server is a requirement there.

The answer seems to be "no".
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Re: kmail2 apparently losing mail while migrating to local imap

Andras Mantia-2
In reply to this post by Martin Steigerwald
Hi,

Martin Steigerwald wrote:

> Am Mittwoch, 24. August 2011 schrieb Alan McKinnon:
>> Hi,
>
> Hi!
>
>> As part of migrating away from kdepim entirely, I've created a local
>> IMAP instance in Dovecot and configured this as a local receiving
>> account. It shows up in the left sidebar of kmail.
>>
>> kmail version      4.7.0
>> KDE version        4.7.0
>> Local folder       ~/.local/share/local-mail
>> local imap folder  ~/.maildir
>>
>> I've used this local imap trick for years when migrating, it always
>> works well. I should be able to drag folder trees, individual folders
>> or individual mails from kmail's Local folders to the IMAP account and
>> have the original mails be moved. It does not appear to work with
>> kmail2 properly.
>>
>> Dragging items to the IMAP folder makes them appear in kmail's display
>> in the correct place and they can be read. However, the originals are
>> no longer in ~/.local/share/local-mail and do not appear in ~/.maildir
>> either. They seem to have been deleted off disk.

Unfortunately so far we couldn't reproduce the issue. We really tried it at
the last PIM meeting and I will give a try once more as soon as I have time.

> So I wonder is loosing mail with KMail 2 some experiences of very few
> users or is it more wide-spread? What about the idea to import instead of
> migrate?

Currently I'd suggest that way. Just ignore the migration and create the
accounts again.

> Would KMail 2 work with my current Akonadi SQLite setup at all? How to
> migrate if not? I bet there isn´t much to migrate as only contacts data is
> cached yet.

I am strongly suggest against using SQLite for Akonadi. My number of gray
hair grew until I realized that my distro patched Akonadi to default to
SQLite. There is no migration path between database backends, so your only
solution is to change the backend and import everything again. What you will
loose is meta information stored in the cache ("real" data will not be
lost). If you already had KMail2 set up and used filters to move mail
around, you'll have to reconfigure the filters (basically the destination of
moves).


> How will Akondi work in NFS based environments? I bet a central database
> server is a requirement there.

I can't comment how MySql performs on NFS.

I hope we will find the cause of data loss soon. There were already fixes in
maildir and mixed maildir resources, one fixed a data loss when downloading
POP3 mails, but as I said so far we couldn't reproduce the copy/move data
loss between folders.

Andras
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Re: kmail2 apparently losing mail while migrating to local imap

Martin Steigerwald
Am Montag, 26. September 2011 schrieb Andras Mantia:
> Hi,

Hi Andras!

Many thanks for your answers.

> Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> > Am Mittwoch, 24. August 2011 schrieb Alan McKinnon:
> >> Hi,
> >
> > Hi!
> >
> >> As part of migrating away from kdepim entirely, I've created a local
> >> IMAP instance in Dovecot and configured this as a local receiving
> >> account. It shows up in the left sidebar of kmail.
> >>
> >> kmail version      4.7.0
> >> KDE version        4.7.0
> >> Local folder       ~/.local/share/local-mail
> >> local imap folder  ~/.maildir
[...]
> >> Dragging items to the IMAP folder makes them appear in kmail's
> >> display in the correct place and they can be read. However, the
> >> originals are no longer in ~/.local/share/local-mail and do not
> >> appear in ~/.maildir either. They seem to have been deleted off
> >> disk.
>
> Unfortunately so far we couldn't reproduce the issue. We really tried
> it at the last PIM meeting and I will give a try once more as soon as
> I have time.

Thats unfortunate. I understand that to fix a bug its essential to be able
to reproduce it and understand the cause of it.

> > Would KMail 2 work with my current Akonadi SQLite setup at all? How
> > to migrate if not? I bet there isn´t much to migrate as only
> > contacts data is cached yet.
>
> I am strongly suggest against using SQLite for Akonadi. My number of
> gray hair grew until I realized that my distro patched Akonadi to
> default to SQLite. There is no migration path between database
> backends, so your only solution is to change the backend and import
> everything again. What you will loose is meta information stored in
> the cache ("real" data will not be lost). If you already had KMail2
> set up and used filters to move mail around, you'll have to
> reconfigure the filters (basically the destination of moves).

So you recommend using MySQL? Or would PostgreSQL work as well?

> I hope we will find the cause of data loss soon. There were already
> fixes in maildir and mixed maildir resources, one fixed a data loss
> when downloading POP3 mails, but as I said so far we couldn't
> reproduce the copy/move data loss between folders.

I think I wait till official Debian packages are ready before I try to use
KMail 2 for my productive data.

When I find time, I would try importing my mail accounts in a VM. But I
still use POP 3 and its a lot of data I need to copy first:

martin@merkaba:~> du -sh Mail
12G     Mail
martin@merkaba:~> find Mail -type f | wc -l
411385

(The total number of mail if way larger, cause I use mbox files for
archiving old mails.)

I already thought about migrating to IMAP before the move to KMail 2.
Maybe that would make sense as it should easy testing of KMail 2. I think
IMAP might be whats best supported in KMail 2 anyway.

I stuck to POP3 cause its quite an effort to migrate everything to IMAP
properly and I need to look at my virtual server to be capable to handle
the storage requirements safely.

Ciao,
--
Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de
GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA  B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7
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Re: kmail2 apparently losing mail while migrating to local imap

Andras Mantia-2
Hi,

Martin Steigerwald wrote:

> So you recommend using MySQL? Or would PostgreSQL work as well?

Personally I use MySQL, that is the most tested variant. In theory
PostgreSQL should also work, there is a developer who commits often
PostgreSQL realated code, so I'd assume he keeps an eye on that. SQLite
unfortunately has problems with concurrent access and can result in random
hangs in Akonadi or in best case slow performance.

> When I find time, I would try importing my mail accounts in a VM. But I
> still use POP 3 and its a lot of data I need to copy first:

I also use POP3 a lot. :)

>
> martin@merkaba:~> du -sh Mail
> 12G     Mail
> martin@merkaba:~> find Mail -type f | wc -l
> 411385
>
> (The total number of mail if way larger, cause I use mbox files for
> archiving old mails.)

Once you have the maildir fixes (I hope to port the fixes to 4.7.2, but
latest they will be in KDE 4.8), you could just create a Maildir account in
KMail and point it to your Mail folder. Then a synchronizing will import all
your mail (and get a coffee/tea, it will take time until it reads the
headers of 12GB mails).

> I already thought about migrating to IMAP before the move to KMail 2.
> Maybe that would make sense as it should easy testing of KMail 2. I think
> IMAP might be whats best supported in KMail 2 anyway.

 POP3 works just as well as IMAP in KMail2. There is nothing in KMail2 that
is designed to work better with IMAP.
 Of course if your mail provider support IMAP, that is better to use, to
name just one reason: to have access to the same mails from different
computers more easily.

Andras
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Re: kmail2 apparently losing mail while migrating to local imap

Alan McKinnon-2
In reply to this post by Andras Mantia-2
On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 10:41:34 +0300
Andras Mantia <[hidden email]> wrote:

> >> Dragging items to the IMAP folder makes them appear in kmail's
> >> display in the correct place and they can be read. However, the
> >> originals are no longer in ~/.local/share/local-mail and do not
> >> appear in ~/.maildir either. They seem to have been deleted off
> >> disk.  
>
> Unfortunately so far we couldn't reproduce the issue. We really tried
> it at the last PIM meeting and I will give a try once more as soon as
> I have time.

It's probably not worth trying to replicate actually.

I did have many problems with kmail2 over the months, but I was using a
config that had come a long way and been migrated through many version.
Some had even been reverted and done again, so who knows what unusual
stuff may have been living in it. Everyone else that I ever found that
had problems with kmail2 was in the same position as I.

Many people reported here and on the web that they didn't have
problems. I noticed that everyone who mentioned the state of their
config had either a clean start or migrated cleanly from a recent
version.

Those are my observations and are anecdotal at best, they lead me to
believe that your unit tests are probably the best way forward to find
sticky issues still needing debugging

--
Alan McKinnnon
[hidden email]
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Re: kmail2 apparently losing mail while migrating to local imap

Martin Steigerwald
Am Montag, 26. September 2011 schrieb Alan McKinnon:

> On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 10:41:34 +0300
>
> Andras Mantia <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >> Dragging items to the IMAP folder makes them appear in kmail's
> > >> display in the correct place and they can be read. However, the
> > >> originals are no longer in ~/.local/share/local-mail and do not
> > >> appear in ~/.maildir either. They seem to have been deleted off
> > >> disk.
> >
> > Unfortunately so far we couldn't reproduce the issue. We really tried
> > it at the last PIM meeting and I will give a try once more as soon as
> > I have time.
>
> It's probably not worth trying to replicate actually.
>
> I did have many problems with kmail2 over the months, but I was using a
> config that had come a long way and been migrated through many version.
> Some had even been reverted and done again, so who knows what unusual
> stuff may have been living in it. Everyone else that I ever found that
> had problems with kmail2 was in the same position as I.
>
> Many people reported here and on the web that they didn't have
> problems. I noticed that everyone who mentioned the state of their
> config had either a clean start or migrated cleanly from a recent
> version.
>
> Those are my observations and are anecdotal at best, they lead me to
> believe that your unit tests are probably the best way forward to find
> sticky issues still needing debugging

So your recommendation would be to delete kmail configuration completely
and recreate everything from scratch?

Well I think before I could at least try to import. Maybe it works for me.
But I have a quite old kmailrc with who knows what cruft in it. Its easily
from KDE 3.x times where x was rather small.

[$Version]
update_info=kmail.upd:1,kmail.upd:4,kmail.upd:5,kmail.upd:6,kmail.upd:7,kmail.upd:8,kmail.upd:9,kmail.upd:3.1-
update-identities,kmail.upd:3.1-use-identity-uoids,kmail.upd:3.2-update-
loop-on-goto-unread-settings,kmail.upd:3.1.4-dont-use-UOID-0-for-any-
identity,kmail.upd:3.2-misc,kmail.upd:3.2-moves,kmail.upd:3.3-use-ID-for-
accounts,kmail.upd:3.3-move-identities-to-own-file,kmail.upd:3.3-aegypten-
kpgprc-to-kmailrc,kmail.upd:3.3-misc,kmail.upd:3.3b1-
misc,kmail.upd:3.4,kmail.upd:3.4a,kmail.upd:3.4b,kmail.upd:3.4.1,kmail.upd:3.5-
filter-icons,kmail.upd:3.5.4,kmail.upd:3.5.7-imap-flag-
migration,kmail.upd:3.5.7-imap-flag-migration-2,mailtransports.upd:initial-
kmail-migration,kmail.upd:4.0-misc,kmail.upd:4.2,kmail.upd:3.1-new-mail-
notification,kmail.upd:3.3-update-filter-rules

KMail from KDE 3.1? ;)

Anyway, so KDE 4.7.x packages for Debian yet.

Thanks,
--
Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de
GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA  B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7
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Re: kmail2 apparently losing mail while migrating to local imap

Alan McKinnon-2
On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 19:55:30 +0200
Martin Steigerwald <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Am Montag, 26. September 2011 schrieb Alan McKinnon:
> > On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 10:41:34 +0300
> >
> > Andras Mantia <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >> Dragging items to the IMAP folder makes them appear in kmail's
> > > >> display in the correct place and they can be read. However, the
> > > >> originals are no longer in ~/.local/share/local-mail and do not
> > > >> appear in ~/.maildir either. They seem to have been deleted off
> > > >> disk.
> > >
> > > Unfortunately so far we couldn't reproduce the issue. We really
> > > tried it at the last PIM meeting and I will give a try once more
> > > as soon as I have time.
> >
> > It's probably not worth trying to replicate actually.
> >
> > I did have many problems with kmail2 over the months, but I was
> > using a config that had come a long way and been migrated through
> > many version. Some had even been reverted and done again, so who
> > knows what unusual stuff may have been living in it. Everyone else
> > that I ever found that had problems with kmail2 was in the same
> > position as I.
> >
> > Many people reported here and on the web that they didn't have
> > problems. I noticed that everyone who mentioned the state of their
> > config had either a clean start or migrated cleanly from a recent
> > version.
> >
> > Those are my observations and are anecdotal at best, they lead me to
> > believe that your unit tests are probably the best way forward to
> > find sticky issues still needing debugging
>
> So your recommendation would be to delete kmail configuration
> completely and recreate everything from scratch?

I'm not qualified to tell you how to proceed - I don't know enough
about how the migration works and what it needs. And if I'm honest I'd
have to admit I'm heavily biased against kmail2. But that's just me.

You should follow the advice from the devs who do know how the product
works.



>
> Well I think before I could at least try to import. Maybe it works
> for me. But I have a quite old kmailrc with who knows what cruft in
> it. Its easily from KDE 3.x times where x was rather small.
>
> [$Version]
> update_info=kmail.upd:1,kmail.upd:4,kmail.upd:5,kmail.upd:6,kmail.upd:7,kmail.upd:8,kmail.upd:9,kmail.upd:3.1-
> update-identities,kmail.upd:3.1-use-identity-uoids,kmail.upd:3.2-update-
> loop-on-goto-unread-settings,kmail.upd:3.1.4-dont-use-UOID-0-for-any-
> identity,kmail.upd:3.2-misc,kmail.upd:3.2-moves,kmail.upd:3.3-use-ID-for-
> accounts,kmail.upd:3.3-move-identities-to-own-file,kmail.upd:3.3-aegypten-
> kpgprc-to-kmailrc,kmail.upd:3.3-misc,kmail.upd:3.3b1-
> misc,kmail.upd:3.4,kmail.upd:3.4a,kmail.upd:3.4b,kmail.upd:3.4.1,kmail.upd:3.5-
> filter-icons,kmail.upd:3.5.4,kmail.upd:3.5.7-imap-flag-
> migration,kmail.upd:3.5.7-imap-flag-migration-2,mailtransports.upd:initial-
> kmail-migration,kmail.upd:4.0-misc,kmail.upd:4.2,kmail.upd:3.1-new-mail-
> notification,kmail.upd:3.3-update-filter-rules
>
> KMail from KDE 3.1? ;)
>
> Anyway, so KDE 4.7.x packages for Debian yet.
>
> Thanks,



--
Alan McKinnnon
[hidden email]
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Re: kmail2 apparently losing mail while migrating to local imap

kevin.krammer (Bugzilla)
In reply to this post by Martin Steigerwald
Hi Martin,

On Saturday, 2011-09-24, Martin Steigerwald wrote:

> I am using KDE 4.6.5 and KDEPIM 4.4.11 works quite stable except for some
> quite annoying hangs now and then when trying to send a mail. The composer
> window would just sit there greyed out and nothing apparently is happening
> anymore. KMail won´t respond to clicks either except for closing the
> window when it offers me to sent as draft. Which I click then, to have an
> additional copy. But then it doesn´t appear to do anything. I sigterm or
> even sigkill it and then if I am lucky I have the mail in sent folder.

Hmm, maybe some error message or other dialog not appearing in the foreground
but intercepting events?
Greyed out sounds like how the composer looks for example when the pinentry
helper is asking for a signing/excryption passphrase.
Usually pops up above KMail/Composer but override window settings could
prevent that.


> So I wonder is loosing mail with KMail 2 some experiences of very few
> users or is it more wide-spread? What about the idea to import instead of
> migrate?

Generally we would like to transform the migrator into an importer specialized
in importing KMail1 setups, e.g. basically doing what the migrator does but in
parallel to running KMail2, not delaying its startup.
Haven't had time to do that though.

It might help to run the migrator explicitly, i.e. not through running KMail2
but instead invoking it manually

kmail-migrator --interactive

Basically works for me (tm) every time I test it after changes, but of course
there could be setups that contain config/data that makes it fail but are not
part of my test config/data.

Your setup (mboxes inside KMail's mail tree, also my setip :)) should work
directly with the mixed maildir resource ("KMail Folders").
This resource is not as performant as the normal maildir resource yet, due to
its higher complexity (mixed tree, KMail index file support), but hopefully
I'll be able to incorporate the enchancements made for the maildir resource in
time for the next 4.7.x release.

You other option is to convert the mbox folders first, e.g. using KMail1 and
then just using the plain maildir resource.

> I am quite puzzled that so many questions easily pop up in my mind when
> all whats lying ahead is a switch from KMail 1 to KMail 2. And KMail
> basically is "just" a MUA.

It is now :)
Previously it was a MUA and an MTA and an UI equivalent of fetchmail.

Cheers,
Kevin
--
Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer
KDE user support, developer mentoring

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Re: kmail2 apparently losing mail while migrating to local imap

Andras Mantia-2
In reply to this post by Andras Mantia-2
Andras Mantia wrote:

> Once you have the maildir fixes (I hope to port the fixes to 4.7.2, but
> latest they will be in KDE 4.8), you could just create a Maildir account
> in KMail and point it to your Mail folder. Then a synchronizing will
> import all your mail (and get a coffee/tea, it will take time until it
> reads the headers of 12GB mails).

All but one maildir fix is now in 4.7 branch, so expect a better maildir
support in KDE 4.7.2. :)
The one missing is a small performance improvement, but unfortunately cannot
be backported as requires an API addition in the libraries.
Some other goodies were also backported.
Note, that for best experience and to see all the bug fixes, you will need a
new akonadi server as well (either master or the upcoming 1.6.2 release).

Andras
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